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First of all, I'd like to discuss the political content
of your music. In "Constellations" there are at least two
clear sociopolitical references: "Maquiladora" and
"Taking Sides". When you presented "Witness" in
Barcelona, you mentioned your support to the demonstrations against the
US intervention in Afganistan. Do you understand your music as a means
to express your political commitment?
DD- No, I feel like my music is a means to express
myself and this political commitment is something I believe in very
personally. For me, music is really beyond words and it's all about
feelings and personal… I don't want to say feelings like emotions but
in the sense of maybe a whole generation, a time and what we're feeling,
what's going on. And, of course, what's going on in the world is
extremely important to me and I think it should be to all of us. But I
don't interpret that in any kind of realistic way. So, in the other
sense, I feel there's a very intuitive and even perhaps more powerful
relationship with me and the imagining of solutions and statements about
situations in the world.
So I guess it's something very personal, you don't do
it with any purpose. You're just expressing yourself…
DD I don't understand you. You're trying to put words
in my mouth.
No, I'm not.
DD Yes, you are. Listen to yourself!
I mean you're not trying to convince anyone of
anything. It's just your expression of…
DD Well, I think music should convince. Yes, I disagree
with what you're trying to ask me to say. I think that music should
convince people and should be extremely personal and if it's not, then
it's very boring and not interesting at all. It's like that book, As
Serious As Your Life. I feel like when I'm making music on stage or in
the studio it's like a fight for survival and I want to listen to
understand how important that is. And that's why I try to tie my music
to things that are not necessarily considered musical, which are also
extremely important.
One of the main characteristics of your music is the
incredible blend of genres. Anything from jazz to Balkans folk music to
classical to electronica. What can you tell us about your new project?
DD- I just finished the album and it's very much a
studio album. I worked on it very closely with Jamie Saft. I came in
with a whole bunch of new compositions and most of it we recorded me and
Joey Baron and Brad Jones. And then we took things apart and we
constructed them. Marc Ribot is playing on a lot of it, Ikue Mori, Jamie
Saft of course, Craig Taborn, a couple of sax players and also this
incredible guy who plays tabla and drums. His name is Karsh Kale and he
also played on quite a bit of it. And I have to say it's exciting for
me, because every time we do a gig it's completely different and I write
new tunes. I feel like in the past, for me with each new group I write
all the music and we get the whole concept and then I present the whole
thing. And with this one, over the last two years that I feel more in
the public eye, I feel like when I go out to do a concert, it's kind of
like everyone's watching. So it's been fun with this group because every
time we do a gig, it develops and it's changing. It came out of the
group Witness, which started as the nine-piece group on the record plus
guests, and then very quickly it became a seven-piece tour. Then, as I
started writing new music and getting new ideas, it took another step in
another direction and I felt like this doesn't have anything to do with
the original project anymore. This is really a new project. So I'm
hoping to find a really, extremely brilliant name for that band but
until I do, I'm calling it Septet because it's seven musicians. You know
the touring band last year with Jamie Saft, Craig Taborn, Mike Sarin,
Brad Jones, Ikue Mori and Chris Speed. It was a great band and I loved
it but I kept composing and I'm just hearing other things. Then, as you
know, or maybe somebody talked about some gigs at Tonic or something…
Yes, I read about it on the Zorn-list.
DD- Oh, they probably hated it but…
They did not, actually.
DD- I did a gig with DJ Olive and it was really
interesting. I try to be very objective about what I do and I'm the
first witness. Some things don't work and some others work. I almost
feel like "I'd rather it was this way" than just go out and
everything works out. Of course, you want everything to work out, let me
not exaggerate, but to say that I'm experimenting is really the truth
with this band. You must know Ikue Mori is playing very well. I think
that she just keeps getting better and better. It's so exciting to play
with her. It's almost like I have a full orchestra of musicians sitting
on this one part of the stage. And we've been working together a long
time. I feel she understands what I'm looking for a lot. No one can
understand everything and I think that I'm beginning to really
understand her language. And that kind of empathy is the most important
thing for me in a live group, that the players can understand more or
less what the leader is looking for and that the leader can understand
what kinds of things are comfortable for the players, what kind of
things maybe push them to a new area.
You've worked with musicians as varied as John Zorn,
Misha Mengelberg, Myra Melford, Han Bennink, Uri Caine and the What We
Live Trio. Which collaborations have been more productive for you?
DD- I don't know. I wouldn't change anything that I
did. Some I liked more than others, but I feel like I'm trying to learn
something everyday. So when I play with Misha Mengelberg, Han Bennink or
Brad Jones I'm learning in every gig. You know, we just did some Tiny
Bell Trio gigs for the first time in almost two years and it's changing
and it's growing. It's wonderful. I was playing with Horace Silver
fifteen years ago. For me it was an incredible experience. I'm thankful
that he didn't fire me right away. In some ways I was not qualified to
do it. I was twenty-three years-old. So I wouldn't change anything. And
of course playing with Masada. I learnt so much doing that and I had a
great time. I think we made a lot of great music. I think that one of
the things that inspired me the most was John's persistence as a
composer. He wrote two-hundred pieces and he stuck with them.
Recently, Masada's "First Live" was released
through Tzadik.
DD- Is it good?
Yes, it is.
DD- I got it in the mail and I've got to tell you I'm
afraid to listen to it.
Since we're talking about John Zorn, what do you think
about the Radical Jewish Culture he's promoting? What does the term
imply?
DD- I think it's fantastic. I think any radical culture
should be a radical experience.
…?
DD- I think that a radical culture goes back to the
extreme roots in order to move ahead in a extremely efficient and
streamlined way. Of course, there's no political content. Otherwise it
would be Radical Jewish Politics, Radical Jewish Political Culture or
whatever you wanna call it. My limited understanding - because first of
all, I'm not Jewish- as someone who played in many different projects
associated with Jewish music and studied it very much because I love it,
is that any radical movement doesn't necessarily mean it has to be
avantgarde. It means to me that it's kind of a stripping-away of all of
our assumptions, going back to first principles in order to move ahead
without the baggage which we've taken on in the last five-thousand
years.
So maybe radical in a sense of purity and then…
DD- If you permit me, I hope you use all my words and
not your words. You keep trying to… Purity is a very scary word. I
think it's dangerous to even use it. You know, I tend to prefer things
that are impure (laughs). I think also a lot of times when people say
culture, they're talking about stereotypes and assumptions about people
and not about what is really the essential fact of human culture, which
comes from the heart, which comes from the individual will to discover
what is really going on inside- mind, body, soul- and to express that.
But when you take away the assumption is in order to create this thing
that maybe is radical. Sometimes it can be very naďve and maybe it has
some surface elements which sound like something else. And that's very
sad. People don't take the time to try to figure out what someone's
really trying to say instead of jumping right in with what THEY have to
say. And I know that sounds very egotistical, like "I should be
allowed to talk and everyone should shut up". I don't think that of
course, but I do feel like as an artist, I'm asked to say through my art
what I have to say. Then I hope that other people have the same
consideration to think about what it all means. So let's avoid the word
pure.
In "The Infinite" you cover Björk and you
dedicate one of the songs to Tom Yorke from Radiohead. I was wondering
what kind of music you're currently listening to.
DD- Well, I really like to listen to everything. I love
Amon Tobim. You know him?
Yes.
DD- He's a Brazilian electronic artist. He's fantastic.
I have Beck's new album. I love Beck and this one… what can I say
withouth preconceptions… Any music that's based on the guitar is
problematic for me. You know what it's like with the guitar player
(imitates some guitar chords). I still listen to a lot of Bill Evans. I
have to confess that I think Jennifer Lopez' new album is fantastic.
Joni Mitchell, Jamie Saft. I still listen to Miles almost every day.
Milton Nascimento; I was in Brazil last year and bought many of his
records. I still like Radiohead; Stravinsky; Stevie Wonder; Marvin Gaye.
I love Wayne Shorter's new album. I actually buy contemporary albums by
jazz musicians like Brad Meldahu, Steve Coleman, Don Byron, Uri Caine,
Frisell. I think that this music coming out of American improvisation is
more alive than ever.
I was going to ask you about your thoughts on the
avantgarde scene today.
DD- I don't really use the word avantgarde because I
think that the idea of avantgarde is an old narrative. Do you understand
what I'm saying?
I don't think so.
DD- Music history is like we get to this point and then
this guy comes and then this guy comes, and maybe this woman once, you
know, in a hundred years. I don't feel like music history is moving that
way anymore. I think that it's going in all directions at the same time,
so it makes the term avantgarde kind of a tradition of the past. And a
lot of people say: "This is avant-garde music". But how is it
avant-garde? They were doing that back in the 60's. But I also think,
what's the point in arguing about words? It's the same like the argument
about what is jazz and what is not. It's just semantic. So I think that
people expressing themselves doing music in a 21st century way is more
alive everyday. Music has gone in so many directions in the last twenty
years. What is avant-garde and what is not? What is ironic and what is
not? What is a post-modern take on the musical tradition and what is not
post-modern? And what is sincere? They are all very good questions but I
also feel like the music itself has gone so far beyond these questions.
I don't have any problem with someone using the word avant-garde. It's
just that I have problems deciding whether I fit into that or not.
Again, it's because I feel there's a narrative that someone is ahead of
their time and they're creating this music that no one's ever heard
before. And maybe things worked that way once but not anymore.
Your records have normally been published by
independent labels like Avant, Songlines, W&W and Arabesque.
Considering that you signed with a major like BMG, do you feel any kind
of artistic pressures?
DD- I really am just following my ear and my heart. As
you know from watching my music maybe over some years, every record I
put out is different from the last one. I think that BMG would be happy
if I turned around and started making extremely commercial records, but
they know who I am and they don't expect me to begin doing that. I feel
like as I grow I understand the process of making records better every
time. When I say that I mean the idea of creating an artefact that
someone will buy or download over the internet and listen to in their
home or in their headphones or in the train or somewhere in a very
personal way, how to communicate what you wanna say is a very special
skill and I feel like I'm getting better at it. I realize I'm pretty
lucky. I just finished my sixth album for BMG and the head of the
company has changed twice since I've been there. So I think I'm lucky to
still be there. I have a very close relationship with the man who is the
president of the company now. I feel he understands what I'm trying to
do. He really knows a lot about music. He was working at Sony Classical
when they were recording all the Lutoslawski with Esa-Pekka Salonen and
the Los Angeles Philarmonic. He was listening to Miles back in the day.
So it's one of that rare quality of executive. He's the head of RCA
Victor Group and I can come in and play him what I'm working on and he
gets personally excited about the music, like he comes to the sessions
and he's really into it. So maybe that's one of the reasons that I'm
still there and that when I come to them and say, "Well, the next
thing I want to make will be an electronic record" they don't throw
me out the door but they listen to me and say: "OK, we trust you.
Go ahead" and then they just keep their fingers crossed. (laughs)
I'm surprised that he's really paying attention.
DD- He really loves the music but I feel that at a
certain point, creative music can only survive so long in that
atmosphere. So I don't believe I will always be there. At a certain
point, the realities of money and capitalism... You know, things have to
get bigger and bigger and that's not the way I work. But I felt proud of
an album like "Witness" because it was really hard for them.
Because I understand that it's like thousands of people working on this
thing and most of them they couldn't care less and they just wanna throw
up because they don't understand it. Can you blame them? Maybe, I don't
know. But the fact that the head of the company is willing to stand and
say "No. This is Dave and we're doing this. So everyone get in line
and support this album"- and of course it sold much less than any
other album- but it was really important stuff for me to do that.
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